The Saratoga Conversation: Shug McGaughey

Hall of Fame trainer Shug McGaughey tells us how he got his unique nickname. He also lets us know who he doesn't like to play golf with. Who do you think is the horse that is closest to his heart out of all of those he has trained? If you thought Easy Goer, you would be wrong. Shug also tells us what his favorite race track is and how long he wants to keep doing this (hint: he isn't going anywhere anytime time soon). Here is the Saratoga Conversation.

TDN: You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't think of any other trainer at Saratoga that's been in the same barn for as long as you've been in this one.

SM: I think it's probably a true statement. I mean, I pulled in here in 1985, my first summer in this barn. We've been lucky to be in it ever since. It's a great barn. It's a great setting. I like it.

TDN: Walking up and down this shedrow over the years, you have certainly had some very nice horses in here.

SM: There have been some pretty good horses come out of here. Since I was here and before I was here.

TDN: When I asked you this once before, your answer surprised me. I asked who your favorite horse was, and I thought you would say Easy Goer.

SM: Seeking the Gold. He was a 110% horse. You put the bridle on him and took him over there, win or lose, he was going to run as hard as he could run.

TDN: Did he ever disappoint you?

SM: I can't say that he disappointed me. I was disappointed sometimes when he got beat. He just got beat in the Met Mile, he just got beat in the Travers, he just got beat in the Haskell. Obviously, they were disappointing. Pretty good horses beat him. Forty Niner beat him twice. In the [1989] Met Mile, that horse of [trainer Bob] Holthus [Proper Reality] came through on the inside.

TDN: You have a unique nickname. How did it come about?

SM: I grew up with it. My grandfather had a nickname [Mack], my father had a nickname [Dooney]. They had to call me something. I was Shug. I've had had it my whole life.

TDN: A lot of people outside of your inner circle most likely don't know your real name is Claude.

SM: No. They don't. When you go someplace, you've got to register as that and then they'll call you that. Or if you go to the dentist or the doctor.

TDN: Is there one race in your career that you could watch over and over again?

SM: I'm not big on watching replays. Maybe a couple of Personal Ensign's races. Not the Breeders' Cup, but a couple of others. Easy Goer's Whitney and Travers were both really good races for him. His Belmont was my first Classic race to win. For Mr. [Ogden] Phipps, too. I would watch that again.

TW: Back in 1989 with the Easy Goer-Sunday Silence rivalry, that kind of captivated the nation.

SM: It was East vs. West. The media helped a little bit. It is still in people's minds. People still come up to me, especially up here, and tell me their favorite horse was Easy Goer. So, it's something that's not gone. His two races up here were really good races.

TDN: You have also said that your comfort zone is being right here. At the barn. Why is that?

SM: This is what I'm used to, sitting here, kind of contemplating the next step. It's an easy place for me to be.

TDN: What time do you get here every morning?

SM: About quarter after 5, 5:30.

TDN: Have you and (wife) Alison taken a vacation in the last few years?

SM: Not per se. When we are in Florida, we might go the Keys for a few days. It is something I need to start doing.

TDN: When you are away, are you still here, at the barn, in your head?

SM: Yes. I never get away from it. There is never a day when it's not. I remember we did go someplace for a night or two and you had to take a little boat to an island. They said there was no TV, no telephone. I get over there and there is no service for the cell phone. We had to go back. They had some kind of a pay phone.

TDN: Would you say you are a perfectionist when it comes to the horses?

SM: I try to be. I like for it to be done right. I like to keep the barn as nice and neat as I can. There's not a lot that gets done with the horses now that didn't get done over the years.

TDN: If you could change one thing in horse racing, what would it be?

SM: I think that with all the rules and regulations that we've gotten down, that it takes a little bit away from what we're doing. I wish that some of these racetracks and some of these organizations would just leave us alone, especially in places like New York and Kentucky. I think that a lot of the breakdown problems were just something that happened. They've been happening forever. I think we just got unlucky with what we had last summer [at Saratoga] and what Churchill had before the Derby a couple years ago, what Aqueduct had in 2012. I think it was just kind of unlucky circumstances. You always hope that it won't happen again, but you know there's going to be problems. We just got to cut down on them as much as we possibly can. The mathematics that some of these racetracks are using and the testing doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

TDN: Do you think 40 days of racing is too much at Saratoga?

SM: I do. I really enjoyed it when it was the August Place to Be. But I'm not stupid. I don't want to be selfish enough to think that we'd have the same results at Belmont at Aqueduct right now that we are having here. I did think the four days [Belmont Stakes Racing Festival] was a lot of fun. I will look forward to it next year.

TDN: Do you hope that NYRA does not expand the meet?

SM: We spend half our summer up here. If they are going to do that, we are going to have to bring our whole outfit up here. What would we do about rental properties for the help? There are only so many stalls here. What would they do about the racing? They might have to cut back a day [per week], I think they run entirely too many races a day. The other day, you looked up and they almost had to have lights to run the last race. I always liked it when I was a kid at Keeneland, they started at 2 and ran eight. Travers Day, if they want to start early and run a long time, I get it. There are going to be 50,000 people here. Some of these days when they have [long race days], I am not in favor of that.

TDN: There are two questions that I ask everybody. If there is a movie made about your life and you can pick the actor to play you, who you got?

SM: I was a big fan of Paul Newman, so that would be a flattering experience.

TDN: You must have been a fan of the “The Sting.”

SM: Yes. “The Sting.” “The Hustler.” All of those. I try to see all of them. He could pull me off.

TDN: The other question I ask is if you could have dinner with three people, living or dead, who would they be?

SM: It is an interesting question.  It would be the two Phippses, Dinny and Mr. [Ogden] Phipps. And  Warner Jones and Dr. Gary Lavin. They are all gone now, but they were people that were very influential in my career, really my life. They would be guys that I'd love to see again. Let me have four.

TDN: If someone asked you for advice about wanting to do the job as a trainer, what would you tell them?

SM: I would tell them not to make it your life. Take time away from barn and have some sort of hobby, some sort of alternative life.

TDN: Isn't it hard to do that?

SM: Very hard. I told my youngest son [Reeve], 'Don't become part of your barn.' Do things. Go out and do things. I didn't. I don't regret any of it, but I do wish I had done a little bit more away from the barn.

TDN: Is Saratoga your favorite track?

SM: Belmont. I love Belmont. I look forward to getting to Belmont the first of April and the only reason I wanted to leave was because it got cold at the end of November. I didn't mind going to Aqueduct and I still don't. It was kind of fun in the racing office, when the agents went to the races, and they were at the draw and there was always a lot of bantering back and forth. It gave you something to do during the day.

TDN: Will you miss the old Belmont when the new Belmont is done?

SM: I have a tremendous amount of memories at the old Belmont. I had to watch them tear it down. But the building was antiquated; something had to be done. I am looking forward to seeing the new Belmont. I have seen, as you have, pictures of the new Belmont and it looks unbelievable. I just hope that when they get it open, that we can get a lot of the horses back and racing in New York can be the way racing in New York is supposed to be. I'm in favor of the Tapeta. I don't want to change the main track at Belmont; I want it to be the way it was. I think it will be.

TDN: This game is unique in the fact that the competitors–you, the other trainers and jockeys–you are right in the crowd. It's not like you go back to a locker room. You have to go through the crowd. Have you ever had any interesting interactions with people in the crowd?

SM: I have had a lot of them, especially up here when you are walking back. I ran a horse at Belmont one day and I was up in the boxes, and the horse got beat, and somebody from the media came running up to me, said, 'What was going on out there? I said, 'How the heck do I know? I wasn't out there? Let me talk to the jock.' Fans up here are very complimentary.

TDN: I have always remembered this. After Orb got beat in the 2013 Preakness, you were walking up the track and you stopped along the rail and signed autographs for, basically, anyone that wanted one. An obvious disappointment, but you still found time for the fans. Why did you do that?

SM: I think because the fans deserved it, especially if they are looking for something that is nice for them. I just didn't want to keep walking by them, and have them go and say, 'Well, he was too good to have time to sign his name on the program.' I just felt it was a little bit of an obligation, to be nice.

TDN: Have you ever really been ticked off after a race?

SM: (smiles) Yeah. A lot of times. If they run good and they get beat and everything is on the up and up, they get beat. The better horse might have won. When one goes over there and runs bad that I think should run good, that gets to me. That does bother me.

TDN: If you had five empty stalls here and you can put five horses from history in them, who would they be? And none of them can be any of yours.

SM: I think Seattle Slew is the best horse I have ever seen. Racing, breeding, as a stud, as a broodmare sire, the whole kit and kaboodle. Secretariat, of course. I did get to see him run as a 2- and 3-year-old in person. Obviously, he was a freak of nature, but he wasn't when he left the racetrack. I was around Forego some, he was a remarkable animal. Go For Wand was an exceptional talent. For her to run as fast as she did in the Test and then come back 10 days later and win the Alabama. One more? Next. If he goes on this year, he should be Horse of the Year. He won't get it, but what he does is unbelievable. When he goes, he goes.

TDN: I know you play golf. Is that your favorite sport outside of horse racing?

SM: It was at one time. I don't play nearly as consistent or as well as I would like to be. But I enjoy golf and I enjoy playing and I enjoy being with the people. I like to fish. I try to do that. Alison likes to play golf, too. But I don't like to play with her.

TDN: How come?

SM: It's too aggravating. She really enjoys fishing. We'll do that in Florida.

TDN: Do you watch football?

SM: Oh yeah. Big UK football fan. Looking forward to the season starting. And I like the pros. I liked the Cleveland Browns growing up because being from Lexington, it was close. And then the Bengals. Living in New York, it's all you hear on the radio, the Giants and the Jets. In Florida, I keep my eye on the Dolphins. When Bill [Parcells] was there, I would go over there and go to practice. That made it fun.

TDN: Do you ever plan on retiring?

SM: One of these days. But I got a lot going on. I have a stable here. I have a barn at Fair Hill. One son [Chip] is at Keeneland and one is training, I have a house up here and a house in Miami and place on Long Island and I get to thinking, 'What the heck are you going to do with all this stuff?' It's not quite as easy as taking a shingle down and walking away. One of these days, I will take that shingle down. But when you have a good horse, it makes you get up in the morning. Right now, it would be tough to walk away.